Web designers....?

I'm trying to set up a website, nothing special, just testing out my newly learnt skills. I'm practicing by making a site offering my web design services, but i won't really be using it.


I'm studying from w3schools, and have only done X/HTML %26amp; CSS so far.


I'm trying to get ideas about what a web designer should put on the homepage/site


So far...


Homepage - I have three short paragraphs explaining what the site is about and what is on offer.





Links to other pages (not made the pages yet) (hosting/domain name - these pages will have links to hosting companies and Domain Name providers)





I have yahoo'd and google'd 'web designers' to get some ideas and with respect, some sites are just cr@p.





Can i be really cheeky and see some of your sites (if you are web designers by trade)?


Is there any thing in particular i need to add?


Is it ok to use tables instead of frames/nav bar as i hate them with a passion?





Thank you in advance.
Web designers....?
%26gt; I'm trying to get ideas about what a web designer


%26gt; should put on the homepage/site


I programmed B2B and B2C sites for about nine years as a captive employee and everything non-web for about twenty, both captive and consultant. I've decided to go freelance, but don't yet have a portfolio, since everything I've done is proprietary to my previous employers. My solution will be to provide samples based on templates that I'll offer for sale. For a number of different site models, I'll provide page examples to give prospective customers ideas. A template sale will be cheaper than a full, original design - it'll take me lots less time to do, once I have the templates available, and I can sell them cheaper.





%26gt; Links to other pages (not made the pages yet)


%26gt; (hosting/domain name...providers)


Be very sure that any such providers are GOOD. You don't want to wreck your rep. Also, if you're "advertising" for providers, see whether you can arrange referral partner status with the providers you elect to link. There could be bonus bucks in it for you.





%26gt; Can i be really cheeky and see some of your


%26gt; sites (if you are web designers by trade)?


Having only very recently decided to move into the freelance market, the only page sample I have currently, publicly published is at:





http://home.comcast.net/~richarduie/





The page is a very straight, simple links listing for web-geeks. The virtues are XHTML for structure, CSS for appearance, JavaScript for behavior. Separate these aspects to the fullest extent possible.





%26gt; Is it ok to use tables instead of frames/nav bar as i hate


%26gt; them with a passion?


I actually loved frames, but they're a really bad model for commercial sites. Frames give web spiders fits, and that's bad for your customers' SEO interests. Tables should not, I stress NOT, be used for layout. CSS is hugely more effective, flexible, robust, and standards-compliant. There are potential clients who have just enough wit to check under the hood of your portfolio or sample pages, checking the source. There are fellow developers and designers who might consider farming overflow work to you, who will definitely check your code. You'll look like an unqualified amateur to anyone who examines your source and sees tables applied for layout.





%26gt; Is there any thing in particular i need to add?


Practically, add conventions and standards. Pick an X/HTML document type and code to it (I prefer XHTML 1.0 currently). Validate your X/HTML and CSS, using the W3C validators; this removes the ambiguity of "quirky" browser treatments and evolves your understanding to a deep, correct one with respect to at least one model to which browser manufacturers are expected to become increasingly compliant. Follow CSS and web accessibility (WA) guidelines; find a validator for WA and use it (I recommend one under the "validators" link on the page I offered). Being meticulously rigorous with your code will provide a better, more robust and easily supportable product; those are major factors in retaining clients.





Read lists, articles, and geek sites, looking for new ideas and solutions.





Good luck.
Web designers....?
Avoid W3Schools - is has lots of errors, and where it isn't flat out wrong, it is usually a long way from best practise. http://www.htmldog.com/ is better.





As for the homepage - either something that explains what the site is about and guides the user towards what they are looking for, or the content that the user is very likely to be looking for.





Frames should be avoided: http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?Problems_wit...





Tables should be avoided except for tabular data: http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/
Reply:Well, web designers will only do what the person wants.





We write the code for them but it is upto the person and the amount of money they have.
Reply:I design sites for people quite a bit. I advise them to keep the homepage simple and limit the content to a "scroll of the wheel". Use short paragraphs and incorporate your Keywords into the page. Remember you can link to the interior pages from the home page so write in a fashion that gets the viewers attention.





Here are 2 of the sites I manage:


http://tracytysonmiller.com


http://ortegamedspa.com
Reply:To answer the table part of your question - tables should be avoided unless it is actually for tabular data (eg. a table containing price) - tables shouldn't be used for layout purposes (one of the many reasons for this is that tables throw off screen readers, making the site hard to use for the disabled)





If you want a better way of laying out pages, have a look at DIVs. There will probably be a lot about DIVs on w3schools.








Pages you could include in a website could be a portfolio page (showing potential customers some previous work you have done) and a contact page, to allow potential customers to send you a message, or phone number/email address.





I just went to google and had a look through some web designer pages, i have included a couple of good ones in the source list.
Reply:The approach to this will depend on your actual role as a designer. Are you looking to work for a design shop? Then the actual design will be your only task. If, on the other hand, you'll be dealing directly with the clients yourself, as a consultant, then one way to make yourself stand out from the rest is to give them not only what they want in terms of appearance, but explain what they NEED to get the RESULTS they want, which may not be the same thing.





The best advice on web design I've ever read is in a book that should be in all the classrooms, called "Don't Make Me Think"...





http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Make-Me-Think...





For some quality learning on both design theory and technique, check out...





http://webmonkey.com





Finally, my own sites, which aren't really wild examples on proper design, as my specialty is taking open-source projects like Drupal, Joomla, Mambo, and WordPress, and making them search-engine-friendly (because having a pretty site doesn't mean anyone will see it).





http://www.HesitantRhino.com
Reply:Everyone has their own ideas of what's good and bad for a web page design. Here is where you can look for 'do and don't do' on web designs (like I say there are more than one list out there): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en%26amp;q=10+...





I have 3 sites of my own that I have designed from the bottom up. You can see them for your viewing pleasure here:


http://www.mermeliz.com/index.htm


http://www.mermeliz.net/index.htm


http://www.allbgs.com/index.htm





What I try to accomplish with my web pages is to make the total page load no more then 100k. (But sometimes it's a little difficult). This is to help the people who are still on dial up not get discouraged when it takes forever for a page to load.





After I've created the page graphics, I use a program called WebGraphics Optimizer ( http://webopt.com/ ) to help compress the graphics to make them smaller so they load faster.





...As you can see by Andy's suggestions, he is an anti table guy, whereas I use tables in order to position everything exactly where I want it to be on a page. Everyones got their own ideas, you just have to find what you like best and what type of webpage surfer you want to attract and then go for it.

new year lily